Author Topic: Simple case deployment  (Read 18095 times)

ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Simple case deployment
« on: August 25, 2014, 06:20:13 AM »
Ours is a simple deployment to save up on bandwidth and improve latency from our satellite WAN provider backbone. Now it's practically impossible to deploy a core at their NOC (ie provider's end) but for us at first, we deployed data and video cache solution which to an extent, has save up on the bandwidth and latency but then we came across wanos. So my question is:
1. Where do you think is the best location to deploy wanos, before or after the cache server?
2. Since wanos is a bridge, we are thinking of simply cabling the edge directly into the core so from our wan to core to edge to our LAN.
3. Any particular thing to note?

Our Current Topology is: WAN backbone - Main Router((load balancing) - Cache Server - Local LAN
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 08:30:27 AM by ceo@tehilahbase.com »

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 10:44:52 AM »
Hi there,

The best location would be to have the cache on the user side of the wanos. Where possible, but not essential.

Having the Core and Edge back to back will not provide any benefits. Two devices are required because they need to be at two locations (either side of the slow or congested link). In this scenario it would be required to have a device at the ISP side.

Does the ISP not offer any hosted services?
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ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 11:22:23 AM »
That is sad to hear, as with all satellite providers its almost impossible to place a core at their location except they initiate that sort of deployment themselves.
I have read somewhere on this forum(though can't find it right now) a WAN - core - switch - edge - LAN deployment?
We are a local rural ISP, reselling the dedicated service from the Satellite providers. Given our current situation how can we take advantage of wanos?

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 11:43:12 AM »
Hi,

It is not always a problem for the providers since they are familiar with Riverbed and Silver-peak who have been providing this option for a long time.

What others are doing where the provider aren't willing to help, is to create a VPN from a hosting platform to the remote site e.g.
Internet/Intranet -> Wanos -> VPN--SAT--VPN -> Wanos -> Users

Update: I notice the resell model late: Could it work in your favor by providing Wanos as a service?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 12:22:22 PM by ahenning »
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ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 11:30:04 AM »
I guess so...
However to revisit the initial question, I have attach a sample of our topology. 'Diagram A' is without WANOS and 'Diagram b' shows wanos edge sitting before each client.
I am guessing the effect will be the same as sitting besides each other as the it is still within the same LAN network on a point to multipoint network. Just thinking...

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 12:06:17 PM »
Hi,

Ok, I understand the topology better now.
In this scenario with a Wanos device at the client site it would work to improve throughput from the central site to the remote sites. For example if the effective throughput of the ptp wifi links are 1-2 Mbps (due to signal or contention), then throughput could increase to 10-20 Mbps under good conditions. If the internet throughput is 1 Mbps and the ptp wifi links are 20 Mbps with no congestion on the base station, then the clients are unlikely to see any benefit. What we can also do is enable transparent web caching at each remote client side.

The Sat link would normally be the best location though, but understand that it is a bit of a challenge.
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ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 12:39:30 PM »
It's encouraging to hear and thanks again for the email. However let me take it further, using 'diagram B', what if wanos edge sits just before the bridge radios at the basestation, the effect I guess would be the same as sitting at the client premises as the P2P I guess is just one 'long LAN cable made wireless' and save up alot on deployment to client.

I have ordered PC devices(ssds, rams, barebones) and would be testing  soon. I plan placing the wanos core and edge at various point and documenting the results. Well, we'll see how it goes.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 01:02:14 PM by ceo@tehilahbase.com »

ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 11:23:37 AM »
@ahenning
In the forum created at http://community.ubnt.com/t5/The-Lounge/WAN-Optimization-anyone-tried-this/m-p/988795#M34322 there are some school of though suggesting WAN optimization such as WANOS are not very relevant in an ISP arena, but I disagree thus this ambiguous question below:

In rural Africa where I operate in, the maximum bandwidth from our backbone at each base station is 45mb via satellite serving between 500 to 800 customer for up to 2mb/s per month. Now people in the West might cringe over the speed but trust me, its heaven here on our network simply because we are investing more in wan optimization such as caches,etc and most recently wanos(wan optimization). Now my question to you is would you totally rule out the possibility of using wanos by an WISP in cases where its not possible to  deploy an edge at clients side? if no, then as the developer, would you be willing to simulate or at least theoretically, explain the outcome and best config for an optimization within same Lan environment.

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 12:56:37 PM »
Hi,

To accurately answer this, it depends on where the 2 mbps limit is applied?

1) If configured on the last mile base station then no. The 2 mbps bottleneck is between the client radio and the base station.

2) If the rate limit is applied at the central site, but the client radio syncs at say 10 mbps, the yes. You can then provide that client with 2 mbps, upto 10 mbps.

A quick check, if two users connected to the same base station share a file, what throughput do they get? If radio speed, then yes, if 2 mbps, then no.

Are inter-client traffic tunneled/routed via a central server?
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ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 01:29:50 PM »
Question 2 is difficult to answer generally as most WISP deploy in different Topology. But for me, Clients CPE is open and can actually pull up to 90mb/s if allowed, however a bandwidth router mikrotik is place just before the basestation that regulate how much maximum bandwidth a client can pull.

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 01:58:59 PM »
Hi,

Ok, best case examples:

If wanos is placed between the mikrotik and the base station:
1) The max backhaul traffic one user can consume is 2 Mbps. One user will never use more than 2 mbps on the backhaul.
2) Wanos at the BS will convert the 2 Mbps to 20 Mbps, send it on to the client radio. Cache/Internet at the HO needs to be able to send at 20 Mbps.

If wanos is placed on the ISP side of the mikrotik at the BS:
1) The max traffic one user can use over the backhaul is 2 mbps. When traffic is optimized well, the user receives 2 Mbps, but the traffic on the backhaul will be reduced to 200 kbps.
2) The end user never sees more than 2 Mbps, but the backhaul load is reduced.
 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 02:04:28 PM by ahenning »
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ceo@tehilahbase.com

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 02:06:51 PM »
Hmm, very interesting information. I want to thank you for your simplicity and response to all the questions. My gears should arrive this weekend or early next week then I can draw up a conclusion, until then, thanks and much appreciated.

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2015, 07:12:42 PM »
After several thoughts, I feel the best way to test is to place a WANOS device at my main basestation and place another WANOS device at my second base via PTP radio link. The problem is peering statues shows down. Although traffic passes through and I can access the internet over at second base, I can't see any optimization. I left the default setting and just changed to high on both side and also changed the WANOS IP to 192.168.1.200 and second to 192.168.1.201. I have attached a sketch. Am I missing something?

ahenning

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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2015, 09:29:30 PM »
If the TCP traffic is definitely flowing through both devices:

Then the most common reason would be if the lan0/wan0 are swapped. Any 'peer detected on lan0' in the log?
Sometimes a default bypass rule is created during install which could be the cause.
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Re: Simple case deployment
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2015, 05:34:57 AM »
During cabling, I made sure WAN0 was connected to the LAN router and LAN0 was connected to the PTP radio at BTS1 and also WAN0 connected to the PTP radio and LAN0 connected to the test PC at BTS2 using the Network interface on WANOS as guide. Just Checked the log and no peer detected on lan0 in the log? But traffic is definitely flowing in. Any suggestions? Can't wait to test...